after reading this post and the ensuing comments @ one good move, i kind of lost my top a little and shot back with the following remarks. for some reason, however, my i.p. range is blocked from posting on one good move. and i’m not sure if that has anything to do with a somewhat heated email exchange i had with norm jenson the first time he trumpted out the highly contentious and logically flawed harvard paper which falsely portrays american support for israel as counterproductive to american interests. specifically, the bone i had to pick with him was his statement that the israel lobby “often places Israel’s interests above our own.” i left a comment stating that it was a classic antisemitic canard: that jews are more loyal to israel than the countries in which they reside. he refused to publish it saying that i was accusing him of being an antisemite for being critical of israel (which, as anyone knows, is the furthest from my M.O.). i then presented him with much of the following information, which he ultimately ignored, seeing how he actually has no legitimate argument to support his contention. which isn’t to say he’s an antisemite, but rather that he’s wading into antisemitic territory without even being aware of it.
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first of all, the christian lobby holds infinitely way more sway and influence over the bush administration and the u.s. government than the jewish pro-israel lobby, as does the defense lobby, and probably half a dozen other lobbies before the jewish pro-israel lobby even comes into the picutre.
you know what’s always inconvenient? facts:
54% of american jews identify as democrat and only 16% as republican. 44% identify as liberal, 26% as conservative and 29% as moderate. 50% believe that the threat of overturning roe v. wade is grounds to disqualify a supreme court nominee. 77% believe the u.s. needs to achieve energy independence.
that should give you a sense of the jewish domestic agenda.
as per the foreign agenda:
60% of american jews disapprove of the government’s handling of the “war on terror.” 70% disapprove of the war in iraq. 77% feel a close connection with israel. 79% say that caring about israel is a strong part of their jewish identity. and 86% view the u.s.’s relationship with israel favorably.
[source]
supporting israel and supporting positive liberal domestic and foreign policies are not mutually exclusive. once upon a time, before the palestinians got good on media, they were seen as quite comfortably going together, hand in hand.
rather, the reason why the pro-israel lobby gets headlines and throws everyone up in arms is, frankly, because of an inherent cultural antisemitism with origins in the roman occupation of palestine, which was perpetuated by christianity, and continues to flourish through less overt channels.
which isn’t to say that to be critical of israel is to be antisemitic. if that were the case, every israeli would be an antisemite. especially every jew who opposed last summer’s disengagement from gaza, and particularly those who blocked roads, assaulted police officers, and who today protest calling for the destruction of the state of israel and the establishment of a jewish theocracy. criticize israel all you want — the government’s policies are fucked. but i mean, if that’s the jews faults, all you fuckers are responsible for dubya, who — btw — has killed more people in three years than have been killed in over 100 years of jewish colonization of palestine.
hence i believe u.s. support for israel is a red herring, meant to distract us from the real issues in play — bush’s ties to the saudis and the bin ladens; the bush family’s involvement in the eugenics movement and relationship with the nazi party; the afghani pipeline deal between enron and osama that went bust; 9/11 and the billions of dollars in gold that was stolen from the wtc; the fec investigation paperwork that was also destroyed; the put options on the airline stock; the subsequent airline bailout.
you’re all staring at the jewish sock puppet on bush’s hand, while his other hand’s in your back pocket — but only because, after two millenia of christian antisemitism, you’ve been conditioned to. you’re too blind to see you’re being baited, and we’re too blind to see that we’re the bait.
it’s the joooooooooooooooooos!!!
yes, well… guess why we have an israel? because after 2,000 years of being the little fucking sock puppet the fascists and oligarchs have pointed to everytime they fucked over the public and needed a paschal lamb, we’ve decided that we’ve had enough. i lost most of my family in the fires of europe. and this time around, we have nukes. so eat me.
am yisrael chai, bitches.
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now you wonder why shit like this makes me queasy. it’s kind of like a cheney-style quail hunt. they’re just lodging the birds in the brush…
jeez, somebody stop me before i turn into one of these maniacs (who incidentally are advertising on the front page of the good ol’ jerusalem post every morning).
9 Comments
a few issues with your post - you fail to make a distinction between jewish americans and the israeli lobby - yes jewish americans are more liberal, but the israeli lobby is not - what does the liberalism of american jews have to do with a extreme right jewish lobby? nothing.
i think i read somewhere AIPAC was considered the third most influential lobby group in washington. can’t find it now, but will post when do. top 10 anyway.
to think they don’t have a major influence is at best naive, at worst decietful.
don’t forget to thank the jewish lobby for getting the US taxpayers money to pay for those nukes, “bitch.”
my point is, when over 85% of jewish americans view u.s. support for israel favorably that’s your jewish pro-israel lobby. the people running the orgs may be conservatives, but the people supporting the general goal of backing israel run the gamut. they’re your voter base and thus your lobby. and that ultimately was my point to norm — when you say pro-israel lobby, you’re talking about the jews.
i also don’t say that the israel lobby isn’t significant or a major influence. they’re just not as important as the weapons lobby or the christian lobby or the oil lobby or the lumber lobby or the pharamceutical lobby or the…
israel built its own nukes. it was called the talpiyot project, and they used einstein’s papers which he’d donated the hebrew university. there’s a documentary about it floating around somewhere.
Hey, you just rocks. And to all the faggots speaking about the jewish lobby I’d recommend to to think on this - lobby is created by government and state. You want no lobby? Change the system!
I think the Jewish American public doesn’t know what is happening if they are satisfied with the current state of affairs. They are like the majority of American that supported the war based on lies about WMD. I don’t hold them responsible for the lobby, because the lobby definately is to the right of them on most things. My guess is they buy the propaganda that disengagement was a first step toward a Palestinians state rather than an annexation plan. I don’t believe Israel is responsibe for Iraq, but I don’t believe the protocols of elders of Islam theory either. I read the english Saudi media daily during the runup to the Iraq war, and the editorials were universially negative. If it was oil that caused it, it was motivated by Texans, not the middle easterners. I do hold the lobby responsible for our dreadful callousness toward the need to push a two state solution, and that in and of itself hurts us with Arabs. In fact it is their number one grievence, before the Iraq occupation started and will be when it ends.
Needless to say, I think this argument is like saying people who criticize Bush hate America, since the majority elected him. There is simply no way to approach that rationally.
Oh, I have several faggot friends and am proud to be one thank you very much.
One more issue is bothering me about this post. You apparently have taken part in protests by the Committee against House Demolitions. If American Jews are knowledgably satisfied with Americas relationship with Israel than they also approve of House demolitions. Are you not an antisemite for opposing the Jews on this matter?
My position is that the Israeli lobby often misleads Jews about Israel intentions and actions.
dameo:
saudis slash domestic oil prices 30%
What is the point of showing they reduced the domestic price of oil 30%? So they keep their people from replacing them with Osama by reducing oil prices.
or it shows that profits are so high that they can get away with a slash of 30%
Their profiting, but it is a bubble that could burst and kill them all. They were opposed to this war because it would spur the jihadis, who have made several attempts to overthrow them at this point.
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